Ancestral File Number: V9TZ-64
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copied from soc.genealogy.medieval newsgroup:
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In a message dated 10/7/98 11:43:15 AM, allenk@pacbell.net writes:

<>

If this is _not_ the case, I surely want to know. I do not have a copy atmy office, but my notes say the marriages of Aelfgar are found in Faris,TPA, 140:8i, 191:9, 270:9ii, 210:8. Also Weis, MCS, 4th ed., 12-11. Istwife Elgiva, d/o Ethelred the Unready, issue: Agatha m 1) Harald 2)Griffith ap Llewelyn, Morkere, Bouchard, Eadwine. Wife 2: AlvarissaMalet, d/o William Malet and Elise Crispin. Issue: Lucy, m Ivo Talyboys.

Kenneth Harper Finton
Editor/ Publisher
THE PLANTAGENET CONNECTION

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also from soc.genealogy.medieval newsgroup:
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In a message dated 9/30/98 12:38:45 PM, taf2@po.cwru.edu writes:

<< This little article by Katherine Keats-Rohan summarizes and buildsupona century's worth of progress on the issue. While the "antecessores"clause issubject to some interpretation, this theory is preferable to thespurious andproblematic Crowland charter. >>

I have received some wonderful information, both online and offline onthis subject.

I see that everyone is tending toaccept that Lucy is not Godiva'sgranddaughter and I appreciate the reasoning behind it. Yet, two thingspuzzle me greatly and pull me away from this moderninterpretation. One isthe naming patterns in the following generations.

(1) 1 Leofric III --Lord Coventry, Earl Mercia, Leicester 1
b. 0975, of Mercia, England
d. 31 Aug 1057, Bromley, Staffordshire, England
& Godiva --Lady of Lincoln 2
b. abt 0980, of Mercia, England
d. 10 Sep 1067
m. bef 1030
(2) 1a Alfgar III --Earl Mercia* 3
d. 1062
& Alvarissa Malet
(3) 1a Lucy Talboys* 4
& Ivo Talboys --Earl of Anjou 5
(4) 1 William de Tailbois
b. of Lancaster, England
& Margaret Tailbois
(5) 1 Goditha Tailbois/Lancaster & Gilbert de Lancaster --4th BaronKendal

Notice that Lucy's granddaughter is named Goditha. Why,if Lucy is notGodiva's granddaughter, would her grandchild be named after Godiva? It issuch a common naming pattern. If Lucy's parents were Turold theSheriffand a daughter of William Malet, as suggested by Katherine Keats-Rohan,there would be no relationship at all with Godiva and no reason for thename to appear in the person of Lucy's granddaughter. I realize that thename is not spelled the same, but certainly it is the same name.

Neither Lucy's birth date nor death date are known. Leofric d in 1057 atage 85. Godiva died ten years later at age 87. Their son Aelfgar died in1062, five years before her mother. If Lucy was 15 when she had her firstchild, she would have been born around1047. She would have been only 19at the time of the Conquest. There are no chronological problems.

_The Complete Peerage_ says: "The link between Lucy and Aelfgar is themanor of Spalding, County Lincoln, which was held by Aelfgarbefore theConquest and by Lucy's first husband, Ives Taillebois (in her right), atthetime of Domesday. No close family connection between Aelfgar andLucyis mentioned in any contemporary document, and chronology is opposedto the relationshipof father and daughter. Moreover, the only knownchildren of Aelfgarare Edwin,Morcar and Aeldgitha, wife of Harold, andconsequently the passing of the manor of Spalding cannot be held tojustify the inference that Aelfgar (a) was father of Lucy."

The second thing that bothers me is the land transfers. It is the basisof the Keats-Rohan argument.

• Note: _UIDABBBD01570A7D811BD0D0000E812BF5C2A7F

1. Lucy (Lucia) Of MERCIA b: Abt 1070 in Crowland & Spalding,Lincolnshire,England